Comments on: FG-fed Linux RNG Work Schedule http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/ Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:11:55 +0000 http://polimedia.us hourly 1 By: TMSR OS, January 2020 Statement « Dorion Mode http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-118 TMSR OS, January 2020 Statement « Dorion Mode Mon, 27 Jan 2020 16:44:11 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-118 [...] his vpatch and article to Cement Keccak Hashing into Kernel RNG, continuing his prior work of ripping out Linux kernel RNG and replacing it with a driver that could be directly fed with random data provided from userspace [...] [...] his vpatch and article to Cement Keccak Hashing into Kernel RNG, continuing his prior work of ripping out Linux kernel RNG and replacing it with a driver that could be directly fed with random data provided from userspace [...]

]]>
By: bvt http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-55 bvt Fri, 09 Aug 2019 17:39:11 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-55 @Stanislav, #18, <blockquote> If you block on FG (~7kB/s) for these, your machine will run like 386, I suspect. </blockquote> I'm not so much concerned about this: if it's too slow, the conclusion would be "Linux does not work nicely with the HWRNG"; and anyway I don't think Linux will use more than 2kB/s or RNG data for it's internal use. #19 <blockquote> Re: tests -- at the very least you want a machine-wide alarm that tells you if the thing went unplugged, or somehow fell substantially below spec output rate, etc. </blockquote> This I can see. @Mircea Popescu, <blockquote> There's a blocking and a non-blocking kernel pool. Let them stand as such. </blockquote> Point taken. Meanwhile, comments here should be fixed. @Stanislav, #18,

If you block on FG (~7kB/s) for these, your machine will run like 386, I suspect.

I'm not so much concerned about this: if it's too slow, the conclusion would be "Linux does not work nicely with the HWRNG"; and anyway I don't think Linux will use more than 2kB/s or RNG data for it's internal use.

#19

Re: tests -- at the very least you want a machine-wide alarm that tells you if the thing went unplugged, or somehow fell substantially below spec output rate, etc.

This I can see.

@Mircea Popescu,

There's a blocking and a non-blocking kernel pool. Let them stand as such.

Point taken.

Meanwhile, comments here should be fixed.

]]>
By: Mircea Popescu http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-53 Mircea Popescu Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:41:57 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-53 > entirely abolish '/dev/urandom' nonblocking pool. Yes, but that was for TMSR-os, not for confiscated-Linus item. Review what that blond fuck did when he ruined the kernel for you, and do the same thing to him. FG in kernel so all the jwzs use it by default. And in general -- republic by default is the crowd control strategy. > entirely abolish '/dev/urandom' nonblocking pool.

Yes, but that was for TMSR-os, not for confiscated-Linus item.

Review what that blond fuck did when he ruined the kernel for you, and do the same thing to him. FG in kernel so all the jwzs use it by default. And in general -- republic by default is the crowd control strategy.

]]>
By: Stanislav Datskovskiy http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-52 Stanislav Datskovskiy Thu, 08 Aug 2019 06:03:13 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-52 @Mircea Popescu : > You already have a led for catastrophic failures neh ? With naked eye, can see the one on desk, but not e.g. the ones at piz... > There's a blocking and a non-blocking kernel pool I actually liked your earlier idea , where entirely abolish '/dev/urandom' nonblocking pool. > no don't make it spuriously shittier by "testing" unasked Seems like cogent argument for leaving the matter entirely out of the kernel. Let user test when he wants, how he wants, decide how many bits he can afford to burn away. I can see an argument for 'kernel cuts FG bitstream among N users' but that's about it. @Mircea Popescu :

> You already have a led for catastrophic failures neh ?

With naked eye, can see the one on desk, but not e.g. the ones at piz...

> There's a blocking and a non-blocking kernel pool

I actually liked your earlier idea , where entirely abolish '/dev/urandom' nonblocking pool.

> no don't make it spuriously shittier by "testing" unasked

Seems like cogent argument for leaving the matter entirely out of the kernel. Let user test when he wants, how he wants, decide how many bits he can afford to burn away.

I can see an argument for 'kernel cuts FG bitstream among N users' but that's about it.

]]>
By: Mircea Popescu http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-51 Mircea Popescu Wed, 07 Aug 2019 22:21:13 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-51 You already have a led for catastrophic failures neh ? And if you want to ~waste~ some bits to spuriously test, all your other arguments suddenly suffer. There's a blocking and a non-blocking kernel pool. Let them stand as such ; and yes if this means proc is running as 386 let it run as 386 ; and no don't make it spuriously shittier by "testing" unasked. You already have a led for catastrophic failures neh ?

And if you want to ~waste~ some bits to spuriously test, all your other arguments suddenly suffer. There's a blocking and a non-blocking kernel pool. Let them stand as such ; and yes if this means proc is running as 386 let it run as 386 ; and no don't make it spuriously shittier by "testing" unasked.

]]>
By: Stanislav Datskovskiy http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-50 Stanislav Datskovskiy Wed, 07 Aug 2019 21:42:58 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-50 Also @Mircea Popescu -- > this means sharing the secret bits with the measurer, which meh I thought this was obv., but why would you ever test *and give out to eating process* a particular string of bytes? You test periodic selections, like in most industrial process, these then get discarded. Also @Mircea Popescu --

> this means sharing the secret bits with the measurer, which meh

I thought this was obv., but why would you ever test *and give out to eating process* a particular string of bytes? You test periodic selections, like in most industrial process, these then get discarded.

]]>
By: Stanislav Datskovskiy http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-49 Stanislav Datskovskiy Wed, 07 Aug 2019 20:58:15 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-49 Re: tests -- at the very least you want a machine-wide alarm that tells you if the thing went unplugged, or somehow fell substantially below spec output rate, etc. Re: tests -- at the very least you want a machine-wide alarm that tells you if the thing went unplugged, or somehow fell substantially below spec output rate, etc.

]]>
By: Stanislav Datskovskiy http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-48 Stanislav Datskovskiy Wed, 07 Aug 2019 20:54:00 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-48 @bvt : > ASLR, stack protector, freelist randomization, certain debug paths and self-tests If you block on FG (~7kB/s) for these, your machine will run like 386, I suspect. @Mircea Popescu: > How's entropy supposed to be automatically measured anyways Pretty sure we went over this at some point in '16 -- the utility of simple "smoke" tests like "ent" in case like this is to detect catastrophic failures (e.g. "oops, that ain't a FG, but is my Hayes 56K") rather than to make fine distinctions. Whether this belongs in kernel space is separate q, but IMHO any time FG output is being pooled, XOR'd, whichever manipulations, there ought to be a simple test that at least wakes up operator if somehow result is e.g. stream of 0. > The whole fucking point of the exercise is to make it part of kernel IMHO the ultimate q is, what part of FG eating, if any, actually wins from happening in kernel. @bvt :

> ASLR, stack protector, freelist randomization, certain debug paths and self-tests

If you block on FG (~7kB/s) for these, your machine will run like 386, I suspect.

@Mircea Popescu:

> How's entropy supposed to be automatically measured anyways

Pretty sure we went over this at some point in '16 -- the utility of simple "smoke" tests like "ent" in case like this is to detect catastrophic failures (e.g. "oops, that ain't a FG, but is my Hayes 56K") rather than to make fine distinctions. Whether this belongs in kernel space is separate q, but IMHO any time FG output is being pooled, XOR'd, whichever manipulations, there ought to be a simple test that at least wakes up operator if somehow result is e.g. stream of 0.

> The whole fucking point of the exercise is to make it part of kernel

IMHO the ultimate q is, what part of FG eating, if any, actually wins from happening in kernel.

]]>
By: bvt http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-47 bvt Wed, 07 Aug 2019 20:03:30 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-47 Thanks for the feedback, I will reconsider my plan then. This may be even easier to implement than what I had in mind originally. I will fix the comments on my blog in meantime. Thanks for the feedback, I will reconsider my plan then. This may be even easier to implement than what I had in mind originally.

I will fix the comments on my blog in meantime.

]]>
By: Mircea Popescu http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/#comment-46 Mircea Popescu Wed, 07 Aug 2019 19:53:15 +0000 http://bvt-trace.net/?p=45#comment-46 PPS. Your blog ate my link on "Stan" above, so now we don't even know which comment I was referencing that way. PPS. Your blog ate my link on "Stan" above, so now we don't even know which comment I was referencing that way.

]]>